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Hopefully this will be the last exchange of messages
about this subject. But
since I just replied again and I'm a lazy journal writer, I thought
that I'd
add the next chapter of this little discussion I'm having.
James Gregurich replies to my last message:
While I don't disagree with your design philosophy, I
see no
reason that good design up front means a Development environment
doesn't need a good debugger. Debuggers can help you pick out
flaws in your thinking. A debugger is certainly a better approach
than littering your code with Printf's as was suggested, though
that may be necessary in some cases.
Debuggers are also very useful for for figuring out someone
else's code. Not all of us work in Nasa environments where
everything is documented to the T and written in plain english. I
have had 2 projects where I could not have understood them
without a debugger because they were spagetti code.
In fact, with the Codewarrior Java tools, I was stepping through
TinySQL to see how it worked and the adventure turned into a lost
cause because the debugger was junk. So, an IDE with a junky
debugger is pitiful. Just because you don't personal use it does
not mean it is not a very useful tool in a moderm development
shop. It is a very important tool and Metrowerks should be
ashamed for releasing it for purchase.
All good points. And perhaps we have gotten away from
what started this
discussion, at least for me. It's time to restate what I think is the
main
point, to make sure we are still talking about the same thing:
I don't disagree that debuggers can be useful in many
situations.
In fact, I can't really say anything for or against debuggers
because of my limited experience with them. What I'm disagreeing
with, is the feeling that without a debugger, you can't write
serious programs.
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Maybe you that's not what you meant, in which case I
apologize
for the misunderstanding. But when I first read your original
message, I read it as saying "no debugger == can't do serious
work". My response was to say that my group has created serious
enterprise level work without using debuggers. I did not intend
to imply that using a debugger means that you aren't doing real
work or that you aren't a real programmer if you depend on a
debugger. So if that's what you took out of my writings, then I
apologize.
I'll close by saying that I've been using CodeWarrior Pro 4 and 5
for the last year and a half and I have found it to be a good
environment for developing Java programs. Mac OS Java support is
a bit clumsy to use compared with Windows, and I'm glad that
CodeWarrior takes care of most of those details for me. While
other people have pointed out some (very valid) failings in
Metrowerks' offering, I for one am quite happy with the product.
I'm not saying CodeWarrior is good for everyone, but it is good
for at least one programmer.
So hopefully that'll be enough to end this part of the
argument. I don't
think we really disagree. And I definitely don't think we were talking
about the exact same thing. I had a problem with the absoluteness of
his initial statement. Because of my poor wording and another poster's
contribution, he took my argument to mean more than I had intended.
It's interesting to see how a discussion can flare into something more
acrimonious. Although we were rather civil in this particular thread,
it could have easily gotten out of hand if one of us had been more
confrontational. That's something that I don't see enough of on the
Internet -- there are still too many people (and it really only takes
a small minority) who quickly resort to personal attacks to resolve
arguments and to fight back against perceived slights.
So is this discussion truly over for me? I guess I'll find out in a
day or two. Note that I've only repeated the main thread, and did leave
out a short message from James in agreement with Joseph. The other
parts of the thread I'm sure have influenced the main thread, but for
the most part the other parts are not as thoughtful as the main thread.
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